What type of drama is going to be played out? For Agnes, it’s rather like a Trump Tower is being erected directly across the street from her. She’s justified in being grumpy because you can imagine how much noise there is. She has a lot of withering remarks about how the new people have no manners and are not worth being acknowledged. So there’s a lot there for future enjoyment to watch the clashes of the old and the new. Are there challenges in playing Agnes? It’s not just wearing a corset and lots of fabric, and how you move and how you speak, but Agnes has a very particular sense of the world. Her boundaries are very clear. Her manners are very crystalline in how she conducts herself and what she expects. Could you compare Agnes to the Dowager Countess in Downton Abbey? It’s a different kind of royalty, but it’s interesting you used that. America was set up as a rebellion against monarchy and royalty. However, there were a group of early New Yorkers, among them the Livingston family, the Roosevelts and the Schermerhorns, who actually wound up considering themselves royalty because they were landed gentry. Because it’s written in the script, I refer to my niece Marion’s grandmother as being a Livingston of Livingston Manor, one of the first families, and they pretty much bought up most of the Hudson Valley. They had tremendous landholdings and they did adhere to rather aristocratic values. So Agnes is an American version. She wouldn’t call herself royalty, but she thinks of herself that way. She thinks of herself as part of a group of people upholding a standard, a way of life, and a way that is America at its best. Downton was very much a story about class distinction with the upstairs/downstairs elements to it. What sensibility does Julian Fellowes bring to class distinction in America? He writes beautifully about it, and he will continue to write about it. I don’t think he makes any judgment on it, but he’s a master at authenticating a historical period and letting people into a narrative of a television show, where characters are actually living the lives that people led at that time. So in order to be true to a portrait of the Gilded Age, you would not just show these old New Yorkers like Agnes, but the nouveau riche like the Russells, who are our version of the Vanderbilts. But there’s no way Julian would avoid the tremendous class distinctions, the tremendous influx in immigrants coming in and of course the racial issues which he has portrayed with Peggy and her family. There’s a very rich mix. The Gilded Age was a time of extremes. Extreme wealth—now we have the Silicon Valley billionaires. Well, the Gilded Age robber barons, they were the Bill Gateses, the Elon Musks and the Jeff Bezoses of their time and they liked to display their wealth. Meanwhile in Lower Manhattan, you had people living in tenements, and income inequality was a great issue then and continues to be. So in a way what I think Julian is writing about is the beginnings of American capitalism, which began after the Civil War because there was such an economic boom in the North. What did you learn from your research about the mores of the time? In the Gilded Age, they painted themselves into a box of behavior and then judged themselves. People were judged very harshly according to standards, especially women, that were very difficult to live up to. The men had more leeway; they were out making money and smoking in the men’s clubs. But the women had to do a kind of social dressage that was so strict. I welcomed entering another age. When I was at Julliard and in the early part of my career doing a lot of classical theater and period pieces, it was no fun to be in a corset for 14 hours, but in a way, I just really loved entering another era. I do love the clothes and the hairstyles and the manners. I’d never done a period piece on film. I’ve done only contemporary things on film, so it was a challenge. You want to be as precise and as truthful as possible, because after all, Julian really knows his stuff and he does tremendous amounts of research. Of course, Julian Fellowes understands the British aristocracy. But I have to say, to his credit, he really, really did a tremendous amount of research and really knew historically what he was writing about in America. On Downton, they had an expert who came on set to make sure they didn’t break the rules of the era they were portraying, like not hugging and shaking hands. Did you have someone similar? Oh, yes, we did. We had etiquette experts, we had historians and we had lectures by historians. If you can believe it, Agnes, her sister [CynthiaNixon] and niece [LouisaJacobson] took a carriage ride. We were driving ostensibly through Central Park, and you can’t even look at someone of a lower class, or someone with a tarnished reputation. You don’t even glance, you look away. To look at someone is to acknowledge their place in society. So the rules were very, very, very strict. Audra McDonald is also in The Gilded Age. Will you have scenes together? Is there a story as to how you were both cast in this? No, no. I was cast very early, and then Cynthia Nixon called and said, “Oh, my God. They’re talking to me about The Gilded Age. Is it true that you might do it?” And I said, “I am doing it.” That was so happy because Cynthia played my daughter 30-some years ago [in the original Broadway production of Tom Stoppard’s The Real Thing]. And then I’m working with Audra. Mind you, they pretty much called every great theater actor not working. There’s more Tony Awards on The Gilded Age than any show in history probably. It’s just one great theater actor after another. So of course they would want Audra on it. There’s a possibility I could work with her because Agnes did champion Peggy, her daughter. I was very kind to that young woman and gave her a job. I like that aspect of Agnes, that she would. Her father was an abolitionist, and we went to the school where Audra’s character’s daughter attended. So I think I have strong feelings for hardworking, ambitious young women, particularly when they have it so much harder in life. But it remains to be seen where that plotline is going. I might very well cross paths with Audra. Anything that allows me to cross paths with Audra is fine with me. She’s one of the greats. Broadway is now back. With all these Tony Award winners, if this goes to season two, how will that work? It’s interesting because of the pandemic everyone was available, and everyone was grateful to work. But all of these great people are not going to just be sitting at home anymore, so I think the scheduling issues will get more difficult. You’ve been playing Diane Lockhart since 2009, first in The Good Wife and now in The Good Fight. Is there still joy in playing her? The joy is that she’s a feminist living in 2022, and the writing is so good that my conflicts always are what’s happening in the world. I wake up and read the news, and often what I’m playing in the show is a reflection of what I’ve read. Do you think you will ever tire of playing Diane Lockhart? This is a woman who’s fought her way to the top, tried to break the glass ceiling. Grew up in the ’60s and ’70s and fought the good fight as a woman. Suddenly, she was living through a period in history where she had to step back because there was another more pertinent, more crucial movement [Black Lives Matter] at the moment, and so she stepped back from the law firm. What I’m trying to say is its very rich narrative terrain. I love the character. I love the way she tries to stay sane in a world that’s going quite insane. And I love her intelligence. I think it’s such a privilege to play a character who represents women. She’s a working woman, well-dressed, well-spoken woman of the world who’s made her way in the world. I like being that person who appears in front of many viewers and representing that sort of character. For 12 years, people have seen a character like Diane. We need more of those characters, don’t we? There are so many interesting, powerful, highly intelligent women of the world. And a lot of them are over 50 or 60, and they’re still making huge contributions and they still matter. So, I love that Robert and MichelleKing always wrote her the way that they did. Plus, I just have to say, when you have writers of the caliber of the Kings, and the production company, and the producers, and the show shoots in Brooklyn, there’s very little that’s a downside. No, I don’t get tired of it, and I doubt if I’d get tired playing Agnes either. You have said that you live a charmed life. But is there more to it than just being in the right place at the right time? Is it more than luck? Also, preparation? Oh, God, yes. I didn’t get to be No. 1 on a call sheet till I was in my 60s. That’s a long wait. I had a slow and steady trajectory. Was it charmed? I don’t know what that word means. It’s charmed in that I’ve always managed to keep my balance. I had a 30-year marriage, I have beautiful daughters and grandsons. And knock wood, I’ve remained healthy, and I’ve had for the most part happy work. I’ve done movies and plays, and I could count on one hand the number of them that perhaps were difficult experiences. I’ve worked with phenomenal people, none the least of which was StephenSondheim. But that was the result of I think studying hard at school and slowly making my way and working hard. You didn’t come to Hollywood as an actress until your 40s. By then, you knew who you were as an actress. Did that make it easier for you to navigate? Much, much easier. I also didn’t move to Los Angeles. We kept our kids in our rural Connecticut home. So I was always flying home and being the Montessori mom, then taking my kids to ride horses and do their various activities. It kept me real. My late husband [MatthewCowles] and I, we raised them in his childhood home. Although, it was really hard for us all to be separated, it was on and off. I went away and I came back and then I had long hiatuses. Honestly, the longest I was in L.A. was Cybill for three and a half years. In some ways, but you never know. I didn’t expect that level of notoriety in my 40s. It was just a great role written by ChuckLorre. It took off rather quickly, won an Emmy rather quickly and then opened a lot of doors for movies and other TV shows. That was CBS. That was the mid-’90s and I’m still working for CBS, now Paramount+. It’s been a happy collaboration for me with the network. Your daughter Lily is following in your footsteps as an actress. What was your advice? I gave her practical advice to be kind, to stay above the fray, stay above the gossip. The safest place is the higher ground. If you’re kind, gracious and professional, that makes as big an impression as your talent. Your reputation precedes you and it follows you out the door. Next, Everything You Need to Know About the Downton Abbey Sequel
